An Interview with Cathie Dunsford and Karin Meissenburg
Samantha Van Nest, University of Manitoba

The novel titled The Journey Home by Cathie Dunsford is a story of Cowrie, a woman originally from New Zealand, working on her thesis at Berkeley University in California. Throughout the novel Cowrie works to break boundaries and build bridges in a variety of situations. Dunsford employs a unique style in order to effectively construct the adventures which Cowrie’s life takes her through. An interview took place with Cathie Dunsford and Karin Meissenburg on April 4, 2007 and the following is a summary of some interesting points which arose during the interview.

Question One: “In this novel you [Dunsford] use words specific to New Zealand, Hawaii and USA, with a mini dictionary in the back of the book to allow the reader to decode the language which may be unfamiliar to them. Was there a reason behind using these types of words within your novel?”

Response: Dunsford states that it is natural for her to use these types of words, therefore she does not think twice about using them. Dunsford explains that she tries her best to explain the event within the sentences of the novel, but does at times forget when writing, that to some readers the terms she uses are foreign. She mentioned that the indigenous culture is more integrated into the mainstream culture in places such as Aotearoa. Thus, when she writes her novels this is the way life around her really is, and it is reflected in how she communicates on the page. This is an extremely interesting point since Canada’s culture as a whole is broad, and as a result, mainstream culture is constructed more by one dominant culture, which may not necessarily be that of each individual person’s culture. Dunsford’s response suggests that indigenous culture is more integrated into the mainstream, thus affecting how she writes. Coupled with this is the idea that when people who are unfamiliar with that type of mainstream way of living read her novel the terms are foreign and begin to break cultural boundaries. This suggests that people’s lives are run day-to-day based on a certain set of discourses. It also links the idea that everyone is expected to strive to conform to an accepted way of acting and expressing one’s self, and those expectations vary from location to location across the globe. This illustrates the boundaries set into place based on where you come from, due to what is expected from mainstream culture.

Question Two: “For myself, reading the different cultural terms and of the different lifestyles, allowed me to better accept the concept of cultural boundaries being broken within the novel. This may be because at the same time my cultural boundaries were being challenged. Was this your intention in using these terms?”

Response: Dunsford mentioned that she hopes the concepts and themes within the novel are universal to people of all nations. She states that although the context may vary on how your day-to-day life occurs, regardless of where you are on Earth, similar issues face most people. With this in mind, Dunsford hopes this will help the reader to relate to the themes and issues of the novel regardless of language and cultural differences. The above remarks suggest that regardless of boundaries which may seem to be dividing people, such as communication methods or lifestyle differences, we may not really be that different. Dunsford noticed that people face similar issues all across the globe. Are these miniscule cultural differences significant? Dunsford’s response to Question Two suggests that the boundaries which define cultures as different are not significant; we are all similar, with similar life experiences and issues, thoughts and emotions. The only thing which varies is the way in which these issues are communicated and approached, depending on how each particular person was taught to behave.

In discussing the relationship between breaking boundaries and building bridges, Karin Meissenburg brings up an excellent point. She states that breaking boundaries possesses seemingly destructive forces but in breaking these boundaries it supplies what is needed to give birth to something new. This may be interpreted as saying that through breaking down boundaries new opportunities form, which lead to a new and hopefully improved way of thinking. People no longer think the old way, leaving a void which needs to be filled with a new way of thinking. This new way of thinking may be an opportunity for positive change. For example, in breaking down the boundaries set by the Women’s Studies faculty in the novel, a new rebirth of a better way of approaching ideas and sharing knowledge can be developed which may ultimately be a more useful approach than the old. Here, a boundary would be broken but a bridge would be formed between the two parties involved in the debate, where they can unite and possibly find a better way to run the faculty.

Dunsford discussed the motivation and reasoning behind the use of symbolism within her novel. She mentions that when writing, she does not follow a “Eurocentric” style of writing, one with a well defined story line; beginning, climax and ending. Rather, she chooses to layer stories within stories in order to further allow the reader to engage in the novel and allow them to think more about its contents. Dunsford mentions that the concept of fire and water in relation to Cowrie and Peta was not something she was conscious of while writing the novel and rather was a concept that emerged as the novel progressed. She knew that she wanted to relate Cowrie to Turtle Woman but never realized the extent of the connection between the two until she further researched the myth.

Pine Nut Girl emerges from a visit Dunsford made to an Indian Village with a friend. They asked a First Nation’s Guide if they could go to a sweat lodge. He was hesitant at first, since the sweat lodge is typically only for males, but when he realized it was a cultural exchange he agreed. He picked up a pine nut. The nut had a sad face naturally imprinted in it and he told her the story of Pine Nut Girl, which Dunsford tried her best to record. He told her to keep the pine nut. At the time she was dealing with boundary issues, and she believes he knew about the issues she was faced with and told her of this story to help her. This was what really started up the novel for her. Dunsford interprets this myth not as one suggesting women be silenced but rather she looks deeper and realized it is about learning to listen. This helped Dunsford discover she needs to learn to listen. When thinking of how this may relate to Cowrie’s personality, Dunsford mentions she wonders what would happen if Cowrie realized that the Pine Nut Girl was her, and that she needed to spend more time listening. This may have helped Cowrie decide to work in New Zealand, out of the university, where she can be closer to the people of the community rather than working in the university where her work would be, in a sense, distanced and therefore not allowing her talent to have as large of an affect directly on people. Pine Nut Girl’s lesson of learning to listen may have helped Cowrie realize that what she has to offer in regard to uniting and blurring boundaries can be enhanced and perhaps even more effective if she works closely with people of the community rather than in a university office.   

Dunsford begins each novel with a dream. She believes this is important because it brings the reader into another space. She states that dreams can tell you about the past present and future, in an interpretive way. Knowing this, suggests that Dunsford’s use of dreams within the novel may act in a way which helps the reader to engage in the novel’s concepts through encouraging the use of imagination. The reader will be able to look at issues in the novel with an open mind and also better engage with cultural aspects which may be foreign. This concept relates to Question One, where again, Dunsford’s use of indigenous aspects in her writing challenge a reader’s cultural boundaries, helping them further engage in the novel’s concepts.

Do the apparent boundaries which are present in our lives mean we are all different? Can we be different but still treat each other equally? Can breaking boundaries ultimately be a positive change leading to new bridges being built, and a better understanding of issues? Dunsford’s use of indigenous culture within her writing suggests a common link between people regardless of the differences which appear to exist. Through this interview, it is suggested that boundary breaking can in fact be positive, and ultimately lead to change.  During the interview, Cathie Dunsford and Karin Meissenburg discussed concepts of indigenous symbolism, boundary breaking, bridge building, and overcoming the differences which seemingly divide people. Their points of view offered a fresh and motivational way to look at the world, one of a different perspective, ultimately resulting in growth of both knowledge of the novel and also in deconstructing the boundaries which are said to exist between people.

Later Notes by Cathie Dunsford: I do actually believe that the boundaries which define cultures are very significant – however we can, with all the tools that Samantha covers, work at talkstory over these differences. Also, while mainstream New Zealand may have to deal with Maori culture more than mainstream in Canada and has integrated many experiences, it is far from perfect and there is still a long way to go. I have great hope from the talkstory of these students that we will eventually get there!